Antoinette Lattouf was never given a chance to defend herself when she was removed from working at the ABC, in a process that was “completely abnormal from start to finish”, the ABC managing director has admitted in court.
Giving evidence on Thursday at the federal court to the unlawful termination case brought by the former radio presenter, David Anderson agreed with Lattouf’s lead barrister, Oshie Fagir, that the process had not been conducted in the usual manner.
He also said the ABC’s processes for dealing with employee misconduct were not followed “to the letter” in Lattouf’s case.
“My understanding is that the allegations were not put to Ms Lattouf,” he said, agreeing that she was also not invited to respond to allegations against her.
Anderson said he did not know if Lattouf had been offered a support person or if an independent investigator had been appointed by the ABC.
“The whole enterprise was completely abnormal from start to finish, would you agree?” asked Fagir.
“Yes,” said Anderson.
Lattouf was hired as a casual host on ABC Radio Sydney’s Mornings program for one week in December 2023. She was taken off air three days into a five-day contract after she posted on social media about the Israel-Gaza war.
Anderson told the court he believed Lattouf should never have been appointed as a casual radio host because of her “partisan view on Israel-Gaza”.
In Anderson’s affidavit, published by the court today, he said local radio management, specifically Steve Ahern, has put the ABC in “an unacceptable position” and “made a negligent error of judgement by employing Ms Lattouf without assessing her prior media and social media activity”. Anderson said he would allege “serious misconduct resulting in reputational damage to the ABC as a result of his actions”. Ahern has since left the ABC.
“I think [Lattouf’s] appointment to being host of Mornings was a mistake,” Anderson said during cross-examination. “My worry is … having somebody on air hosting conversations that matter to the community on live radio who holds a particular view and how they are able to be impartial when they have publicly stated something else.”
Anderson said he had been alerted to concerns about Lattouf after her first day in the casual job, when he received a large number of nearly identical complaints from listeners, which he said appeared to have been part of a coordinated campaign.
Anderson said he was not very familiar with Lattouf prior to this incident, but remembered she was involved with the organisation Media Diversity Australia and had appeared on the ABC’s flagship panel discussion program, Q&A.
Anderson told the court after Lattouf’s first day on air he had spent time looking through her social media accounts. “I came to the view that Ms Lattouf had made – well, there was antisemitic content on her social feeds.”
In text messages sent by Anderson to the ABC’s chief content officer, Chris Oliver-Taylor, that night Monday, Anderson wrote: “I think we have an Antoinette issue. Her socials are full of antisemitic hatred.”
Pressed in court about which posts contained “antisemitic hatred”, Anderson said: “I have a recollection of her … challenging the existence of Israel, which I do believe to be antisemitic, but certainly her social feeds had antisemitic messages based within them.”
He added he couldn’t recall specifics of the messages, or if the posts had come from Lattouf, other people posting replies to her, or her replies to them, “but that, to me, added up to antisemitism that was sitting on her social feeds”, he said.
Anderson said steps were taken after the complaints to minimise the risk of partisan commentary on Gaza on air, including instructing Lattouf not to editorially engage in the Middle East conflict while on air, introducing a delay, so the content was not broadcast live, and a “dump button” that allowed producers to dump content they believed to be problematic.
Anderson referred to these as “mitigants” put in place, and said once they were introduced he “expected [Lattouf] to be on air for the rest of the week” and had been surprised when he learned from Oliver-Taylor that she had been removed from the program.
“Frankly, that decision was a surprise to me. I didn’t expect that at all. It was my understanding that Ms Lattouf was on air to the end of the week,” he said.
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‘Is there a Lebanese race in your view or not?’
Anderson was also asked whether he had any doubts that “there exists a Lebanese race”, as he was quizzed about the ABC’s workforce being made up of “many cultures, races and communities”.
“If somebody tells me they’re Lebanese, I don’t question whether they mean it’s race or national identity,” he said.
When pushed by Fagir as to whether there is “a Lebanese race in your view or not”, Anderson replied: “I haven’t formed a view as to whether there is or there isn’t.”
Fagir said in his opening statement on Monday that the broadcaster rejected Lattouf’s claim of racial discrimination, because she has not proven being Lebanese, Middle Eastern or Arab is a race.
However, the ABC’s lead barrister, Ian Neil SC, said in court on Wednesday that “the ABC does not deny the existence of any race” and the onus was on Lattouf to provide evidence in relation to any race claim she may make.
‘You’re sounding good, you’re doing a great job’
Mark Spurway, the acting manager of ABC Radio Sydney at the time of Lattouf’s removal from the ABC, also gave evidence on Thursday.
He recalled that he had praised Lattouf’s performance on the Mornings program for her first two shifts, agreeing that he had told her in front of other staff: “you’re sounding good, you’re doing a great job”. He also conceded that her removal was a complete shock to him and other staff.
“Correct, I was surprised,” he said.
Spurway had made inquiries about paying Lattouf for the final two shifts that she had been contracted for but did not present.
In last year’s Fair Work Commission hearing, the ABC argued that the fact she had been paid for all shifts was evidence that she had not been sacked. The commission ruled she had been sacked, paving the way for this week’s federal court case.
Spurway denied he had inquired about her payment for the last two shifts because he thought doing so would assist the ABC in the litigation that Lattouf commenced in December 2023.
“I thought it was a fair thing to do, and I made that call the same day that Ms Lattouf left the ABC … I thought, she had a contract for five days, we’d asked her to le–”, he cut himself off and rephrased, “to not present Thursday and Friday and I thought, well, the best thing to do was to pay her for that time in lieu.”
“You hadn’t asked her to not present, you told her she wasn’t going to present,” said Philip Boncardo, one of Lattouf’s barristers.
“She was asked not to present. She was told, yeah, that she was not required for Thursday and Friday.”
The case, which was due to finish hearing evidence on Friday, is running at least a day behind schedule and will not conclude this week, the judge said.